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	<title>Comments on: DfT prefers imperial units to pedestrian safety</title>
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	<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/07/dft-prefers-imperial-units-to-pedestrian-safety/</link>
	<description>Commentary on the measurement muddle in the UK</description>
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		<title>By: Ezra Steinberg</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/07/dft-prefers-imperial-units-to-pedestrian-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-21052</link>
		<dc:creator>Ezra Steinberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1280#comment-21052</guid>
		<description>I would add to Phil&#039;s statement about the issue pertaining to continental vehicles on British roads and vice versa that the same will apply increasingly to Irish vehicles on Northern Ireland&#039;s roads and vice versa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would add to Phil&#8217;s statement about the issue pertaining to continental vehicles on British roads and vice versa that the same will apply increasingly to Irish vehicles on Northern Ireland&#8217;s roads and vice versa.</p>
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		<title>By: philh</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/07/dft-prefers-imperial-units-to-pedestrian-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-21051</link>
		<dc:creator>philh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1280#comment-21051</guid>
		<description>Thank you for that contribution Michael. It is easy to forget that a number of other countries have made the to transition metric without a problem, including Ireland just 5 years ago. It is only in Britian where we are told that safety and cost are a prohibitive barrier.

I would suggest however that in Britain there is a gain to be made in terms of safety because of the mess things are in, qv the problem with &quot;bridge strikes&quot; and other hazards and lack of consistent metric signage for height, width and length.

A complete and decisive change to metric on road signs, coupled with a requirement for vehicles to have an in-cab indication of vehicle dimensions (where appropriate) in metric would eliminate an obvious risk.

The same could not be said of imperial because it would not solve the problem of continental vehicles on British roads or British vehicles travelling to the continent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for that contribution Michael. It is easy to forget that a number of other countries have made the to transition metric without a problem, including Ireland just 5 years ago. It is only in Britian where we are told that safety and cost are a prohibitive barrier.</p>
<p>I would suggest however that in Britain there is a gain to be made in terms of safety because of the mess things are in, qv the problem with &#8220;bridge strikes&#8221; and other hazards and lack of consistent metric signage for height, width and length.</p>
<p>A complete and decisive change to metric on road signs, coupled with a requirement for vehicles to have an in-cab indication of vehicle dimensions (where appropriate) in metric would eliminate an obvious risk.</p>
<p>The same could not be said of imperial because it would not solve the problem of continental vehicles on British roads or British vehicles travelling to the continent.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Glass</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/07/dft-prefers-imperial-units-to-pedestrian-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-21050</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Glass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 09:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1280#comment-21050</guid>
		<description>As an Australian I can assure everyone that using metric or imperial measures makes no difference to road safety. It didn&#039;t even make any difference to road safety when we switched from miles to kilometres. Things like seat belts, random breath testing and other reforms make a difference to road safety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an Australian I can assure everyone that using metric or imperial measures makes no difference to road safety. It didn&#8217;t even make any difference to road safety when we switched from miles to kilometres. Things like seat belts, random breath testing and other reforms make a difference to road safety.</p>
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		<title>By: philh</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/07/dft-prefers-imperial-units-to-pedestrian-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-21045</link>
		<dc:creator>philh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 14:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1280#comment-21045</guid>
		<description>The 2 second rule is to enable drivers to judge a safe distance by means of timing, not by conversion to distance in yards.

The 100 yard markers that John Gow refers to are actually spaced at 100 metres.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 2 second rule is to enable drivers to judge a safe distance by means of timing, not by conversion to distance in yards.</p>
<p>The 100 yard markers that John Gow refers to are actually spaced at 100 metres.</p>
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		<title>By: John Steele</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/07/dft-prefers-imperial-units-to-pedestrian-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-21043</link>
		<dc:creator>John Steele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 21:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1280#comment-21043</guid>
		<description>John Gow,

When you drive on the Continent (or the UK changes), multiply speed limit in kilometers per hour by 0.5 for a 1.8 s gap, or by 0.6 for a 2.16 s gap.  I use this when I drive in Canada.

You could multiply by 5/9 for a perfect 2 s gap, but frankly, there is nothing sacred about 2 s.  A little more or less, depending on an individual&#039;s reaction time may be better suited to that individual.  Also, most of estimate distance in either yards or meters imperfectly.

At least in the US, a speed limit in kilometers per hour (few are) must be a multiple of 10, so it is easy enough to multiply.  I believe Canada also requires a multiple of 10 (or I haven&#039;t driven on Canadian roads with an odd multiple of 5, but even that is easily multiplied by 0.6)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Gow,</p>
<p>When you drive on the Continent (or the UK changes), multiply speed limit in kilometers per hour by 0.5 for a 1.8 s gap, or by 0.6 for a 2.16 s gap.  I use this when I drive in Canada.</p>
<p>You could multiply by 5/9 for a perfect 2 s gap, but frankly, there is nothing sacred about 2 s.  A little more or less, depending on an individual&#8217;s reaction time may be better suited to that individual.  Also, most of estimate distance in either yards or meters imperfectly.</p>
<p>At least in the US, a speed limit in kilometers per hour (few are) must be a multiple of 10, so it is easy enough to multiply.  I believe Canada also requires a multiple of 10 (or I haven&#8217;t driven on Canadian roads with an odd multiple of 5, but even that is easily multiplied by 0.6)</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Cooper</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/07/dft-prefers-imperial-units-to-pedestrian-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-21042</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Cooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1280#comment-21042</guid>
		<description>John Gow claims that &quot;A huge advantage of the imperial system on roads is distances between moving cars can easilly be calculated.&quot;

Leaving aside the fact that there would have to be 1800 yards in a mile for his approximation to be exactly correct, can he please explain this &quot;huge advantage&quot;?

As far as I can see, it only works if you are exactly 2 seconds behind the car in front, and travelling at exactly the same speed, and even then, it will only tell you that the distance in yards to the car ahead is approximately equal to your speed.

Personally, all I need to know is that a 2 second gap is the recommended gap to leave to allow me to brake safely. I don&#039;t need to know the exact distance to the car in front.

If I want to estimate 30 metres, I can do it by eye. It&#039;s roughly half the width of a football pitch (touchline to centre spot) That&#039;s hardly difficult to imagine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Gow claims that &#8220;A huge advantage of the imperial system on roads is distances between moving cars can easilly be calculated.&#8221;</p>
<p>Leaving aside the fact that there would have to be 1800 yards in a mile for his approximation to be exactly correct, can he please explain this &#8220;huge advantage&#8221;?</p>
<p>As far as I can see, it only works if you are exactly 2 seconds behind the car in front, and travelling at exactly the same speed, and even then, it will only tell you that the distance in yards to the car ahead is approximately equal to your speed.</p>
<p>Personally, all I need to know is that a 2 second gap is the recommended gap to leave to allow me to brake safely. I don&#8217;t need to know the exact distance to the car in front.</p>
<p>If I want to estimate 30 metres, I can do it by eye. It&#8217;s roughly half the width of a football pitch (touchline to centre spot) That&#8217;s hardly difficult to imagine.</p>
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		<title>By: John Gow</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/07/dft-prefers-imperial-units-to-pedestrian-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-21040</link>
		<dc:creator>John Gow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 19:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1280#comment-21040</guid>
		<description>Miles and yards work perfectly well, so leave them alone. A huge advantage of the imperial system on roads is distances between moving cars can easilly be calculated. If you stick the &#039;2 second&#039; rule then two cars at 30mph are 30yards apart and at 60mph are 60yards apart. Precise measurements in escape tunnels are the last thing that will be on your mind. Round up to the nearest 1/4 mile and that would be fine. I&#039;ve seen 6&#039;-6&quot; heights expressed as mm and it just looks rediculous. I think there is better things to spend 700million on thyan uprooting every 100 yard marker and altering it 10yards to be 100m; really does it make that much difference? It&#039;s part of our heritage so leave it alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miles and yards work perfectly well, so leave them alone. A huge advantage of the imperial system on roads is distances between moving cars can easilly be calculated. If you stick the &#8217;2 second&#8217; rule then two cars at 30mph are 30yards apart and at 60mph are 60yards apart. Precise measurements in escape tunnels are the last thing that will be on your mind. Round up to the nearest 1/4 mile and that would be fine. I&#8217;ve seen 6&#8242;-6&#8243; heights expressed as mm and it just looks rediculous. I think there is better things to spend 700million on thyan uprooting every 100 yard marker and altering it 10yards to be 100m; really does it make that much difference? It&#8217;s part of our heritage so leave it alone.</p>
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		<title>By: philh</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/07/dft-prefers-imperial-units-to-pedestrian-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-20984</link>
		<dc:creator>philh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Aug 2010 08:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1280#comment-20984</guid>
		<description>The TSRDG does not authorize metric units for distance but neither does it explicitly ban them. It is only those who object to metric indications that claim them to be &quot;unlawful&quot;.

It is also a tiresome argument to suggest that imperial units are required for British traffic signs in order to comply with European Union directives. The Units of Measurement directive allows imperial on British signs as a concession (derogation). That is not the same as requiring them.

In any case the TSRGD does not fully comply with that directive, nor for that matter with the UK version, namely the Units of Measurement regulations. The use of &#039;m&#039; for mile (the symbol for metre), &#039;T&#039; for tonne (instead of &#039;t&#039;), &#039;yds&#039; for yards (rather than &#039;yd&#039; - unit symbols should not be pluralized) and failure to use &#039;ft&#039; and &#039;in&#039; for feet and inches are all points of departure, none of which are authorized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The TSRDG does not authorize metric units for distance but neither does it explicitly ban them. It is only those who object to metric indications that claim them to be &#8220;unlawful&#8221;.</p>
<p>It is also a tiresome argument to suggest that imperial units are required for British traffic signs in order to comply with European Union directives. The Units of Measurement directive allows imperial on British signs as a concession (derogation). That is not the same as requiring them.</p>
<p>In any case the TSRGD does not fully comply with that directive, nor for that matter with the UK version, namely the Units of Measurement regulations. The use of &#8216;m&#8217; for mile (the symbol for metre), &#8216;T&#8217; for tonne (instead of &#8216;t&#8217;), &#8216;yds&#8217; for yards (rather than &#8216;yd&#8217; &#8211; unit symbols should not be pluralized) and failure to use &#8216;ft&#8217; and &#8216;in&#8217; for feet and inches are all points of departure, none of which are authorized.</p>
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		<title>By: Ezra Steinberg</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/07/dft-prefers-imperial-units-to-pedestrian-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-20983</link>
		<dc:creator>Ezra Steinberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Aug 2010 07:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1280#comment-20983</guid>
		<description>Why on earth would signs directing pedestrians to exits be designated as &quot;traffic&quot; signs. Seems rather odd to me.

Moreover, metric units are allowed by the TSRGD on signs that announce height, width, and length restrictions. It is simply a matter of amending the TSRGD to permit (at the very least) the use of the symbol &quot;m&quot; for &quot;meters&quot; in addition to the word &quot;yards&quot; on signs in the tunnels.

A straightforward design would raise the word &quot;yards&quot; above the baseline of the digits to make room for the symbol &quot;m&quot; beneath it. (Other variations are of course possible.)

The response by Mr. Baker strikes me as fatuous, to say the least. I hope someone on the opposition asks the appropriate question during question time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why on earth would signs directing pedestrians to exits be designated as &#8220;traffic&#8221; signs. Seems rather odd to me.</p>
<p>Moreover, metric units are allowed by the TSRGD on signs that announce height, width, and length restrictions. It is simply a matter of amending the TSRGD to permit (at the very least) the use of the symbol &#8220;m&#8221; for &#8220;meters&#8221; in addition to the word &#8220;yards&#8221; on signs in the tunnels.</p>
<p>A straightforward design would raise the word &#8220;yards&#8221; above the baseline of the digits to make room for the symbol &#8220;m&#8221; beneath it. (Other variations are of course possible.)</p>
<p>The response by Mr. Baker strikes me as fatuous, to say the least. I hope someone on the opposition asks the appropriate question during question time.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Bailey</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/07/dft-prefers-imperial-units-to-pedestrian-safety/comment-page-1/#comment-20980</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1280#comment-20980</guid>
		<description>This just goes to show how bad the current rules are... ok, so we have a derogation to allow for imperial measures on road signs but surely this is a clear matter of public safety which, given that these are pedestrian signs, should trump the provisions of TSGRD.

In addition to this, the clauses in TSGRD banning metric only seem to have been added in recent years with the badly thought out excuse of &quot;avoiding confusion&quot; and there are plenty of places in TSGRD where metric is permitted (or sometimes even required such as for trams) so it can&#039;t be that difficult to make metric permissible on signs intended for pedestrians!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This just goes to show how bad the current rules are&#8230; ok, so we have a derogation to allow for imperial measures on road signs but surely this is a clear matter of public safety which, given that these are pedestrian signs, should trump the provisions of TSGRD.</p>
<p>In addition to this, the clauses in TSGRD banning metric only seem to have been added in recent years with the badly thought out excuse of &#8220;avoiding confusion&#8221; and there are plenty of places in TSGRD where metric is permitted (or sometimes even required such as for trams) so it can&#8217;t be that difficult to make metric permissible on signs intended for pedestrians!</p>
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