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	<title>Comments on: Could a future Government reverse metrication?</title>
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	<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/04/could-a-future-government-reverse-metrication/</link>
	<description>Commentary on the measurement muddle in the UK</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 19:55:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Ken Cooper</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/04/could-a-future-government-reverse-metrication/comment-page-1/#comment-20388</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Cooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 22:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1102#comment-20388</guid>
		<description>The UKIP statement also ignores the fact that the &quot;imperal system&quot; is not actually the preferred system in use in any country in the world.

How do they expect UK businesses to be allowed to export &quot;pint&quot; bottles of beer to the US when the US &amp; Imperial pints differ by nearly 100ml? 

Why do they seem to expect that other world nations might accept exports marked only in an archaic system that isn&#039;t even fully understood in the UK?

As usual, the UKIP soundbite can easily be exposed as lacking in substance when you actually examine the real life consequences of their half-baked policies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The UKIP statement also ignores the fact that the &#8220;imperal system&#8221; is not actually the preferred system in use in any country in the world.</p>
<p>How do they expect UK businesses to be allowed to export &#8220;pint&#8221; bottles of beer to the US when the US &amp; Imperial pints differ by nearly 100ml? </p>
<p>Why do they seem to expect that other world nations might accept exports marked only in an archaic system that isn&#8217;t even fully understood in the UK?</p>
<p>As usual, the UKIP soundbite can easily be exposed as lacking in substance when you actually examine the real life consequences of their half-baked policies.</p>
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		<title>By: John Steele</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/04/could-a-future-government-reverse-metrication/comment-page-1/#comment-20385</link>
		<dc:creator>John Steele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1102#comment-20385</guid>
		<description>Guessing that mystery, un-named non-metric market ISN&#039;T Liberia or Burma, let me point out that the mystery market:
*Does require metric as well as Customary, and doesn&#039;t allow Imperial where it differs from Customary.
*We only agree on length and weight.  In fact, on weight, only if stones, hundredweights and tons are avoided.
*Our gallon and bushel and all their subdivisions are different, including the fluid ounce

Besides the fact that we REQUIRE metric, the easiest way to track the differences between Customary and Imperial is via their metric equivalents.  So I&#039;m a trifle unclear on the alleged advantage. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guessing that mystery, un-named non-metric market ISN&#8217;T Liberia or Burma, let me point out that the mystery market:<br />
*Does require metric as well as Customary, and doesn&#8217;t allow Imperial where it differs from Customary.<br />
*We only agree on length and weight.  In fact, on weight, only if stones, hundredweights and tons are avoided.<br />
*Our gallon and bushel and all their subdivisions are different, including the fluid ounce</p>
<p>Besides the fact that we REQUIRE metric, the easiest way to track the differences between Customary and Imperial is via their metric equivalents.  So I&#8217;m a trifle unclear on the alleged advantage. <img src='http://metricviews.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: philh</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/04/could-a-future-government-reverse-metrication/comment-page-1/#comment-20384</link>
		<dc:creator>philh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1102#comment-20384</guid>
		<description>The UKIP statement also ignores the fact that those so called &quot;restrictive EU rules&quot; include concessions to non-metric countries outside the EU in the form of supplementary indications.
Not that I approve of them but it does mean that leavng the EU would give us no advantage where that is concerned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The UKIP statement also ignores the fact that those so called &#8220;restrictive EU rules&#8221; include concessions to non-metric countries outside the EU in the form of supplementary indications.<br />
Not that I approve of them but it does mean that leavng the EU would give us no advantage where that is concerned.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Vlietstra</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/04/could-a-future-government-reverse-metrication/comment-page-1/#comment-20376</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Vlietstra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 19:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1102#comment-20376</guid>
		<description>Ken Cooper wrote

They [the UKIP] state “After Britain leaves the EU, UKIP will negotiate free trade agreements with states all over the world. We want to retain the flexibility of our weights and measurements, so we can trade with countries that use imperial and metric measurements, and not be bound to restrictive EU rules”

If the UKIP (or anybody else) were to read the history of the metric system, they will see that the biggest contributors to the technical side of things were the British scientists (in spite of British Government indifference).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken Cooper wrote</p>
<p>They [the UKIP] state “After Britain leaves the EU, UKIP will negotiate free trade agreements with states all over the world. We want to retain the flexibility of our weights and measurements, so we can trade with countries that use imperial and metric measurements, and not be bound to restrictive EU rules”</p>
<p>If the UKIP (or anybody else) were to read the history of the metric system, they will see that the biggest contributors to the technical side of things were the British scientists (in spite of British Government indifference).</p>
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		<title>By: Ezra Steinberg</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/04/could-a-future-government-reverse-metrication/comment-page-1/#comment-20374</link>
		<dc:creator>Ezra Steinberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 18:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1102#comment-20374</guid>
		<description>Perhaps the new UK government might be persuaded to allow the government in Northern Ireland to convert road signs there as a pilot to demonstrate how cost-effectively it could be done and iron out any kinks in the process (as long as the Unionists were assured the rest of the UK would then be converted using the lessons learned from N.I.).

I suppose one can always dream ...   :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the new UK government might be persuaded to allow the government in Northern Ireland to convert road signs there as a pilot to demonstrate how cost-effectively it could be done and iron out any kinks in the process (as long as the Unionists were assured the rest of the UK would then be converted using the lessons learned from N.I.).</p>
<p>I suppose one can always dream &#8230;   <img src='http://metricviews.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: A</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/04/could-a-future-government-reverse-metrication/comment-page-1/#comment-20371</link>
		<dc:creator>A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 08:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1102#comment-20371</guid>
		<description>If any government suggests reverting back to Imperial or calls for deregulation, they should be given a question like this:

&quot;Do you want to be responsible for Britain&#039;s downfall in being an unimportant and economically unattractive country?&quot;

What these people are forgetting is that the implications of Metrication go beyong shops and road signs. Britain is already the odd one out in Europe and it is not working to our advantage.

The British government is supposed to represent Britain and work with other countries around the world. If the government decides to be obtuse and do things differently, its going to have a detrimental effect to this country. Britain&#039;s influence in Europe is beginning to wane and I don&#039;t think the country is quite being seen as it used to by our neighbours.

The European Space program is one such example of Britain being shut out on major projects. France and Germany were involved in an important project dealing with the bulk of the technology, manufacturing and development. Britain was given very little of the share which France and Germany could have done themselves or given the task to another member. It could be argued that interest in Astronomy is not strong in Britain (conveniently forgetting all the contributions ever made) and thus not wanting to play a big part in the ESA. However, I am more inclined to believe that it is this country&#039;s incessant attitude of opposing everything and being obnoxiously different. And the Metric System is one such example which is putting off other nations in dealing with Britain.

Britain is stuck in the mess of having two systems. Businesses in the USA are switching to Metric so they can no longer be seen as justification for imperial. Industries use Metric globally. Harmonizations and Standards are sought after.

The recession has ended, Britain is starting to recover. If any future British government reverses the efforts on using the Metric system, then there really is no hope in hell that Britain could survive or continue to be part of the international community at any significant capacity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If any government suggests reverting back to Imperial or calls for deregulation, they should be given a question like this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Do you want to be responsible for Britain&#8217;s downfall in being an unimportant and economically unattractive country?&#8221;</p>
<p>What these people are forgetting is that the implications of Metrication go beyong shops and road signs. Britain is already the odd one out in Europe and it is not working to our advantage.</p>
<p>The British government is supposed to represent Britain and work with other countries around the world. If the government decides to be obtuse and do things differently, its going to have a detrimental effect to this country. Britain&#8217;s influence in Europe is beginning to wane and I don&#8217;t think the country is quite being seen as it used to by our neighbours.</p>
<p>The European Space program is one such example of Britain being shut out on major projects. France and Germany were involved in an important project dealing with the bulk of the technology, manufacturing and development. Britain was given very little of the share which France and Germany could have done themselves or given the task to another member. It could be argued that interest in Astronomy is not strong in Britain (conveniently forgetting all the contributions ever made) and thus not wanting to play a big part in the ESA. However, I am more inclined to believe that it is this country&#8217;s incessant attitude of opposing everything and being obnoxiously different. And the Metric System is one such example which is putting off other nations in dealing with Britain.</p>
<p>Britain is stuck in the mess of having two systems. Businesses in the USA are switching to Metric so they can no longer be seen as justification for imperial. Industries use Metric globally. Harmonizations and Standards are sought after.</p>
<p>The recession has ended, Britain is starting to recover. If any future British government reverses the efforts on using the Metric system, then there really is no hope in hell that Britain could survive or continue to be part of the international community at any significant capacity.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Cooper</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/04/could-a-future-government-reverse-metrication/comment-page-1/#comment-20366</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Cooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 19:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1102#comment-20366</guid>
		<description>In this month&#039;s &quot;TS Today&quot; (The Trading Standards Institute&#039;s monthly publication), the 3 &quot;main&quot; parties - Conservative, Labour &amp; Liberal Democrats and 6 of the &quot;minor&quot; parties - Greens, SNP, Plaid Cymru, DUP, Sinn Fein &amp; UKIP - outline their consumer affairs &amp; business regulation policies.

Only one of these 9 parties even mention Weights &amp; Measures as one of their priorities. Unsurprisingly, it&#039;s the far-right Eurosceptics of UKIP. 

They state &quot;After Britain leaves the EU, UKIP will negotiate free trade agreements with states all over the world. We want to retain the flexibility of our weights and measurements, so we can trade with countries that use imperial and metric measurements, and not be bound to restrictive EU rules&quot;

Luckily for supporters of metrication, UKIP are unlikely to even win one seat on May 6th, so they will be in no position to influence Government policy, whoever wins.

Current odds at Ladbrokes are:-

UKIP to win a seat 2/1
UKIP NOT to win a seat 4/11 on (worth a punt, I feel!)

Note: these are the odds to win 1 seat, not to win the election! UKIP really are just about unelectable in a first-past-the-post contest.

So, if we look only at the parties which are likely to win seats at the election, I would be extremely surprised if the new government (whether it is a single party or a coalition) choose to take any steps toward reversing any area in which the UK has already metricated. If any of the parties do have such plans, they are remaining very quiet about them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this month&#8217;s &#8220;TS Today&#8221; (The Trading Standards Institute&#8217;s monthly publication), the 3 &#8220;main&#8221; parties &#8211; Conservative, Labour &amp; Liberal Democrats and 6 of the &#8220;minor&#8221; parties &#8211; Greens, SNP, Plaid Cymru, DUP, Sinn Fein &amp; UKIP &#8211; outline their consumer affairs &amp; business regulation policies.</p>
<p>Only one of these 9 parties even mention Weights &amp; Measures as one of their priorities. Unsurprisingly, it&#8217;s the far-right Eurosceptics of UKIP. </p>
<p>They state &#8220;After Britain leaves the EU, UKIP will negotiate free trade agreements with states all over the world. We want to retain the flexibility of our weights and measurements, so we can trade with countries that use imperial and metric measurements, and not be bound to restrictive EU rules&#8221;</p>
<p>Luckily for supporters of metrication, UKIP are unlikely to even win one seat on May 6th, so they will be in no position to influence Government policy, whoever wins.</p>
<p>Current odds at Ladbrokes are:-</p>
<p>UKIP to win a seat 2/1<br />
UKIP NOT to win a seat 4/11 on (worth a punt, I feel!)</p>
<p>Note: these are the odds to win 1 seat, not to win the election! UKIP really are just about unelectable in a first-past-the-post contest.</p>
<p>So, if we look only at the parties which are likely to win seats at the election, I would be extremely surprised if the new government (whether it is a single party or a coalition) choose to take any steps toward reversing any area in which the UK has already metricated. If any of the parties do have such plans, they are remaining very quiet about them!</p>
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		<title>By: philh</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/04/could-a-future-government-reverse-metrication/comment-page-1/#comment-20365</link>
		<dc:creator>philh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1102#comment-20365</guid>
		<description>Prior to 1995 it was the case that metric and imperial were allowed for trade. Between 1995 and 2000 both pounds and kilograms were still allowed for loose goods.

Metric units were allowed as early as 1897 but never gained the popular status of imperial largely because they were discouraged by a regime of prescribed quantities that were rounded imperial amounts.

Since that time outdated imperial units have been progressively removed from the allowed list. So there was nothing radically new in principle when they were deleted altogether.

It has never been in the interests of the consumer to have to deal with two systems for trade. The situation that prevailed for more than a century should never have been allowed.

It would be quite deplorable if any future government attempted to revert Britain back to that sorry situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prior to 1995 it was the case that metric and imperial were allowed for trade. Between 1995 and 2000 both pounds and kilograms were still allowed for loose goods.</p>
<p>Metric units were allowed as early as 1897 but never gained the popular status of imperial largely because they were discouraged by a regime of prescribed quantities that were rounded imperial amounts.</p>
<p>Since that time outdated imperial units have been progressively removed from the allowed list. So there was nothing radically new in principle when they were deleted altogether.</p>
<p>It has never been in the interests of the consumer to have to deal with two systems for trade. The situation that prevailed for more than a century should never have been allowed.</p>
<p>It would be quite deplorable if any future government attempted to revert Britain back to that sorry situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Goodhand</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/04/could-a-future-government-reverse-metrication/comment-page-1/#comment-20364</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Goodhand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 14:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1102#comment-20364</guid>
		<description>To the Editor

1) Specify precisely which sentence in my whole comment is wrong.
2) Specify precisely where and how the 1985 Act has been amended.

I thought one of the big campaigns in this election was to curb the powers of judges to overturn the intentions of parliament.

&lt;em&gt;[The Act was amended by Statutory Instrument 1994 No. 2867 (The Units of Measurement Regulations 1994), which deleted the imperial measurements from the list of permitted units. See http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1994/Uksi_19942867_en_1.htm.  This needs to be read together with The Weights and Measures Act 1985 (Metrication) (Amendment) Order 1994 (SI 1994 No. 2866) available at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1994/Uksi_19942866_en_1.htm. The amendment was of course approved by both Houses of Parliament, so there is no question of judges &quot;overturning the intentions of Parliament&quot;.  As the matter has been conclusively determined by both Parliament and the Courts, can we leave it there? - Editor]  &lt;/em&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the Editor</p>
<p>1) Specify precisely which sentence in my whole comment is wrong.<br />
2) Specify precisely where and how the 1985 Act has been amended.</p>
<p>I thought one of the big campaigns in this election was to curb the powers of judges to overturn the intentions of parliament.</p>
<p><em>[The Act was amended by Statutory Instrument 1994 No. 2867 (The Units of Measurement Regulations 1994), which deleted the imperial measurements from the list of permitted units. See <a href="http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1994/Uksi_19942867_en_1.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1994/Uksi_19942867_en_1.htm</a>.  This needs to be read together with The Weights and Measures Act 1985 (Metrication) (Amendment) Order 1994 (SI 1994 No. 2866) available at <a href="http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1994/Uksi_19942866_en_1.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1994/Uksi_19942866_en_1.htm</a>. The amendment was of course approved by both Houses of Parliament, so there is no question of judges "overturning the intentions of Parliament".  As the matter has been conclusively determined by both Parliament and the Courts, can we leave it there? - Editor]  </em></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Goodhand</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/04/could-a-future-government-reverse-metrication/comment-page-1/#comment-20362</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Goodhand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 09:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=1102#comment-20362</guid>
		<description>The current primary piece of legislation is the Weights and Measures Act 1985 which allows the yard or the metre, the pound or the kilogram equally to be used in trade. It&#039;s that simple. 
I&#039;d just be happy for any future governement to recognise this and not try to wheedle out of it by pretending there is some sort of constitutional hierarchy of Acts which gives certain earlier Acts precedence over later ones. See Thoburn v Sunderland City Council

&lt;em&gt;[Editor: This is plain wrong.  What Robert Goodhand fails to say is that all the courts rejected this argument. In fact the Act had been amended to remove the imperial measures from the list of  authorised units.  See Lord Justice Laws judgement at http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/judgmentsfiles/j1008/THOBURN_v_SUNDERLAND.htm]]&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The current primary piece of legislation is the Weights and Measures Act 1985 which allows the yard or the metre, the pound or the kilogram equally to be used in trade. It&#8217;s that simple.<br />
I&#8217;d just be happy for any future governement to recognise this and not try to wheedle out of it by pretending there is some sort of constitutional hierarchy of Acts which gives certain earlier Acts precedence over later ones. See Thoburn v Sunderland City Council</p>
<p><em>[Editor: This is plain wrong.  What Robert Goodhand fails to say is that all the courts rejected this argument. In fact the Act had been amended to remove the imperial measures from the list of  authorised units.  See Lord Justice Laws judgement at <a href="http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/judgmentsfiles/j1008/THOBURN_v_SUNDERLAND.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/judgmentsfiles/j1008/THOBURN_v_SUNDERLAND.htm</a></em></p>
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