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	<title>Comments on: Minister agrees it is time to clear up “very British mess”</title>
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	<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/02/minister-agrees-it-is-time-to-clear-up-%e2%80%9cvery-british-mess%e2%80%9d/</link>
	<description>Commentary on the measurement muddle in the UK</description>
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		<title>By: Ronnie Cohen</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/02/minister-agrees-it-is-time-to-clear-up-%e2%80%9cvery-british-mess%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-24178</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronnie Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=896#comment-24178</guid>
		<description>One reason why the UK has got stuck in the middle of two measurement systems is because of the painfully slow conversion process, which has meant that we have had to pay the costs of metrication without the full benefit of a single, rational measurement system that everyone uses and understands. Another reason why we are stuck is because metrication has become associated with the European Union and politicians are too scared to address this issue as they are afraid of losing votes and of the reactions of the tabloid press.

Thus we have the unacceptable situation where two measurement systems are often used for labelling products and for height and width restriction signs and two measurement systems are often used in the same newspaper articles, even to measure the same physical quantity. You only have to see the random mix-and-match approach to measurements in the Highway Code to see what a mess we are in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One reason why the UK has got stuck in the middle of two measurement systems is because of the painfully slow conversion process, which has meant that we have had to pay the costs of metrication without the full benefit of a single, rational measurement system that everyone uses and understands. Another reason why we are stuck is because metrication has become associated with the European Union and politicians are too scared to address this issue as they are afraid of losing votes and of the reactions of the tabloid press.</p>
<p>Thus we have the unacceptable situation where two measurement systems are often used for labelling products and for height and width restriction signs and two measurement systems are often used in the same newspaper articles, even to measure the same physical quantity. You only have to see the random mix-and-match approach to measurements in the Highway Code to see what a mess we are in.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Cooper</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/02/minister-agrees-it-is-time-to-clear-up-%e2%80%9cvery-british-mess%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-20258</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Cooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=896#comment-20258</guid>
		<description>The report above states

&quot;Briefly, an official report found that, despite previous warnings, 30% of NHS hospitals were still using scales that are switchable between metric and imperial, and 10% were actually being used in imperial mode.&quot;

If you read the report, you will see that the percentage of &quot;dual&quot; weighing machines in use decreased from around 40% to under 30% between 2008 &amp; 2009. 

The report also makes clear (which the summary above does not) that the figure of &quot;10% imperial&quot; refers to 10% of the 30% of dual scales. 

In other words, the figures could be presented as

70% metric only
27% dual (but indicating metric)
3% dual (but indicating imperial only)
0% imperial only

I would agree that this is not perfect, but it is a huge improvement since medical weighing equipment was firstly prescribed in 2003 and the year-on-year improvements can be seen over the 2 surveys undertaken in 2008 &amp; 2009. &lt;em&gt;[So that&#039;s alright, then? - Editor]&lt;/em&gt;

Finally, I would point out the latest advice on metric-only equipment can be found at
 http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_114048.pdf

It includes the following advice

&quot;From now on, scales purchased for medical purposes should only be capable of metric display. There should be no capacity for switching or dual readouts. Trusts should be aware of the pitfalls of using switchable scales and may wish to consider replacing them or having the switches removed&quot;

&lt;em&gt;[Better late than never - but it is odd that anybody should seek to defend the dilatoriness of the NHS in removing the obvious source of a possibly disastrous accident (as pointed out by Lord Walton in the videoclip).  Happily, the Minister was not so complacent in her response.  In fact, the &quot;alert&quot; referred to also goes on to say: 
&quot;Healthcare providers should ... draw up an action plan to address the recommendations of the (LACORS) report by the 30th July 2010... To comply with the action ... there will need to be in place a prioritised action plan with realistic timescales for replacing equipment. A maximum period of 12 months to replace equipment is considered a reasonable timescale.&quot; - Editor]&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The report above states</p>
<p>&#8220;Briefly, an official report found that, despite previous warnings, 30% of NHS hospitals were still using scales that are switchable between metric and imperial, and 10% were actually being used in imperial mode.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you read the report, you will see that the percentage of &#8220;dual&#8221; weighing machines in use decreased from around 40% to under 30% between 2008 &amp; 2009. </p>
<p>The report also makes clear (which the summary above does not) that the figure of &#8220;10% imperial&#8221; refers to 10% of the 30% of dual scales. </p>
<p>In other words, the figures could be presented as</p>
<p>70% metric only<br />
27% dual (but indicating metric)<br />
3% dual (but indicating imperial only)<br />
0% imperial only</p>
<p>I would agree that this is not perfect, but it is a huge improvement since medical weighing equipment was firstly prescribed in 2003 and the year-on-year improvements can be seen over the 2 surveys undertaken in 2008 &amp; 2009. <em>[So that's alright, then? - Editor]</em></p>
<p>Finally, I would point out the latest advice on metric-only equipment can be found at<br />
 <a href="http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_114048.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_114048.pdf</a></p>
<p>It includes the following advice</p>
<p>&#8220;From now on, scales purchased for medical purposes should only be capable of metric display. There should be no capacity for switching or dual readouts. Trusts should be aware of the pitfalls of using switchable scales and may wish to consider replacing them or having the switches removed&#8221;</p>
<p><em>[Better late than never - but it is odd that anybody should seek to defend the dilatoriness of the NHS in removing the obvious source of a possibly disastrous accident (as pointed out by Lord Walton in the videoclip).  Happily, the Minister was not so complacent in her response.  In fact, the "alert" referred to also goes on to say:<br />
"Healthcare providers should ... draw up an action plan to address the recommendations of the (LACORS) report by the 30th July 2010... To comply with the action ... there will need to be in place a prioritised action plan with realistic timescales for replacing equipment. A maximum period of 12 months to replace equipment is considered a reasonable timescale." - Editor]</em></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Ational</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/02/minister-agrees-it-is-time-to-clear-up-%e2%80%9cvery-british-mess%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-20197</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Ational</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 17:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=896#comment-20197</guid>
		<description>Not much chance of the matter resolving itself with time while we have campaigns on the BBC and elsewhere extolling the young to run a mile for Sport Relief. Why a mile for goodness sake, when athletics is totally metric? There appears to be no mention of any metric distance events, or encouragement to use them, by the organisers at http://www.sportrelief.com/ where there is even a page for teachers! Just how out of touch and Luddite can these organisations get? Not that I&#039;m against the fund raising, just against the potential effects on the education of the young and therefore future competitiveness of my country by this sort of lunacy. 

Come on political establishment, get it sorted out, and quickly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not much chance of the matter resolving itself with time while we have campaigns on the BBC and elsewhere extolling the young to run a mile for Sport Relief. Why a mile for goodness sake, when athletics is totally metric? There appears to be no mention of any metric distance events, or encouragement to use them, by the organisers at <a href="http://www.sportrelief.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.sportrelief.com/</a> where there is even a page for teachers! Just how out of touch and Luddite can these organisations get? Not that I&#8217;m against the fund raising, just against the potential effects on the education of the young and therefore future competitiveness of my country by this sort of lunacy. </p>
<p>Come on political establishment, get it sorted out, and quickly!</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Bladon</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/02/minister-agrees-it-is-time-to-clear-up-%e2%80%9cvery-british-mess%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-20196</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Bladon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=896#comment-20196</guid>
		<description>The NHS needs to go completely SI; not just ensure that metric scales are used, it must also ‘Shed Calories’. The “Calorie” often written as “calorie” means “kilocalorie” – it’s confusing and is not the legal unit for food energy.  
In 1972 The Royal Society published a report on nutrition stating that the word ‘calorie’ should not be used.  One example it gave was ‘calorie intake’ should be replaced by ‘energy intake’. 
 For foods, energy values should be given in kilojoules (kJ). 

Sadly the NHS website is full of references to calories, for example:
‘How many calories do I need a day?’
http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1126.aspx?CategoryID=51&amp;SubCategoryID=165

In January 2009, Barry Bolton, Head of editorial production, NHS Choices, wrote:
“For the time being we will be sticking to &quot;calories&quot; as our primary food energy unit because it is one of which most of our users have some understanding.
 We are, however, considering introducing a short explanation of
 kilojoules/calories on appropriate pages in an effort to foster greater
 understanding of the SI unit.”

Now it’s time for the NHS to phase out the Calorie/calorie/kilocalorie.  NHS Dieticians and Nutritionists should play their part in “Shedding Calories” and use only SI units.

And all gym machines in hospitals should also show SI units.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The NHS needs to go completely SI; not just ensure that metric scales are used, it must also ‘Shed Calories’. The “Calorie” often written as “calorie” means “kilocalorie” – it’s confusing and is not the legal unit for food energy.<br />
In 1972 The Royal Society published a report on nutrition stating that the word ‘calorie’ should not be used.  One example it gave was ‘calorie intake’ should be replaced by ‘energy intake’.<br />
 For foods, energy values should be given in kilojoules (kJ). </p>
<p>Sadly the NHS website is full of references to calories, for example:<br />
‘How many calories do I need a day?’<br />
<a href="http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1126.aspx?CategoryID=51&amp;SubCategoryID=165" rel="nofollow">http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1126.aspx?CategoryID=51&amp;SubCategoryID=165</a></p>
<p>In January 2009, Barry Bolton, Head of editorial production, NHS Choices, wrote:<br />
“For the time being we will be sticking to &#8220;calories&#8221; as our primary food energy unit because it is one of which most of our users have some understanding.<br />
 We are, however, considering introducing a short explanation of<br />
 kilojoules/calories on appropriate pages in an effort to foster greater<br />
 understanding of the SI unit.”</p>
<p>Now it’s time for the NHS to phase out the Calorie/calorie/kilocalorie.  NHS Dieticians and Nutritionists should play their part in “Shedding Calories” and use only SI units.</p>
<p>And all gym machines in hospitals should also show SI units.</p>
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		<title>By: philh</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/02/minister-agrees-it-is-time-to-clear-up-%e2%80%9cvery-british-mess%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-20195</link>
		<dc:creator>philh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=896#comment-20195</guid>
		<description>Re Jeremiah&#039;s comment above.

Just for clarification, the Irish changeover to metric road signs was not the result of a voluntary process following a liberal change in law allowing metric as well as imperial.

Distance signs were changed gradually using normal replacement to reduce cost. Speed limit signs were changed instantly (at the end of that period) because it wasn&#039;t practical or safe to have a mixture of mph and km/h.

The project was phased but decisive, and was managed officially throughout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Jeremiah&#8217;s comment above.</p>
<p>Just for clarification, the Irish changeover to metric road signs was not the result of a voluntary process following a liberal change in law allowing metric as well as imperial.</p>
<p>Distance signs were changed gradually using normal replacement to reduce cost. Speed limit signs were changed instantly (at the end of that period) because it wasn&#8217;t practical or safe to have a mixture of mph and km/h.</p>
<p>The project was phased but decisive, and was managed officially throughout.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Ational</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/02/minister-agrees-it-is-time-to-clear-up-%e2%80%9cvery-british-mess%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-20194</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Ational</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=896#comment-20194</guid>
		<description>Having watched the questions and answers at http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/search?q=metric&amp;type=media
I was extremely disappointed, though not surprised, to note that in the wider shots of the chamber neither their Lordships Adonis (Secretary of State for Transport) nor Mandelson (Secretary of State for Business, Innovation &amp; Skills) appeared to be present. How convenient for a government that appears to put political expediency before rationality and long term benefits to the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having watched the questions and answers at <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/search?q=metric&amp;type=media" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/search?q=metric&amp;type=media</a><br />
I was extremely disappointed, though not surprised, to note that in the wider shots of the chamber neither their Lordships Adonis (Secretary of State for Transport) nor Mandelson (Secretary of State for Business, Innovation &amp; Skills) appeared to be present. How convenient for a government that appears to put political expediency before rationality and long term benefits to the country.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Glass</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/02/minister-agrees-it-is-time-to-clear-up-%e2%80%9cvery-british-mess%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-20192</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Glass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=896#comment-20192</guid>
		<description>The main game here is the confusion in the hospitals. This is a time to press the Minister, asking what concrete plans she has made to replace the weighing machines in the hospitals, when the new scales will be rolled out and how much the changeover will cost. Pin her down! Let her know that you plan to hold her to her promise to do something about the mess NOW and not &quot;in time&#039;&#039;. Otherwise her promise is just hot air.

Think of the reality of the health system. Local health area are not going to move unless they are pushed, and even then a good number of them are going to drag their heels because it will cost them money to replace their old scales. If it&#039;s important to replace the scales, then the Minister will have to take steps to ensure that it happens, and happens soon. 

Write to local health areas and ask them what plans they have to replace the old dual scales with metric only scales. If they don&#039;t have plans or claim they don&#039;t have the money, get back to the Minister. Let the Minister know that this is a question that will not go away.

Get on to the Opposition. They will relish any stick to beat the Government with, and what better one than old scales that can give misleading readings in the old measures! The tabloid press will also love this story if it&#039;s a way to cry Shock! Horror!

Go to doctors&#039; organisations and ask what they are doing about this issue. Let them know that this is something that can be fixed, and should be fixed now.

This is a situation where just one or two determined people can make a real difference to the response of the NHS to this dangerous situation of switchable scales in hospitals and NHS health facilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main game here is the confusion in the hospitals. This is a time to press the Minister, asking what concrete plans she has made to replace the weighing machines in the hospitals, when the new scales will be rolled out and how much the changeover will cost. Pin her down! Let her know that you plan to hold her to her promise to do something about the mess NOW and not &#8220;in time&#8221;. Otherwise her promise is just hot air.</p>
<p>Think of the reality of the health system. Local health area are not going to move unless they are pushed, and even then a good number of them are going to drag their heels because it will cost them money to replace their old scales. If it&#8217;s important to replace the scales, then the Minister will have to take steps to ensure that it happens, and happens soon. </p>
<p>Write to local health areas and ask them what plans they have to replace the old dual scales with metric only scales. If they don&#8217;t have plans or claim they don&#8217;t have the money, get back to the Minister. Let the Minister know that this is a question that will not go away.</p>
<p>Get on to the Opposition. They will relish any stick to beat the Government with, and what better one than old scales that can give misleading readings in the old measures! The tabloid press will also love this story if it&#8217;s a way to cry Shock! Horror!</p>
<p>Go to doctors&#8217; organisations and ask what they are doing about this issue. Let them know that this is something that can be fixed, and should be fixed now.</p>
<p>This is a situation where just one or two determined people can make a real difference to the response of the NHS to this dangerous situation of switchable scales in hospitals and NHS health facilities.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremiah</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/02/minister-agrees-it-is-time-to-clear-up-%e2%80%9cvery-british-mess%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-20190</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremiah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=896#comment-20190</guid>
		<description>&quot;It will sort itself out in time” won&#039;t happen if those laws now prohibiting metrication in some sectors are not changed to at least allow for metric units to be used.  If the law forbidding metric units to be used on some road signs is changed to the permissive use of any unit, then metric road signs will begin to appear naturally until they eventually are all metric.  This is what happened in Ireland until finally in 2005 Ireland made it official and completed what had not changed.  

If it would be legal to have a pub offer any size instead of being forced to use pints, you would see pint sizes disappear in favour of metric sizes.  It would be cheaper to purchase the same size glasses used elsewhere instead of having a special size not used outside the UK.  

As with the woman who spoke about her cookbooks, this can be easily solved by not having to get a new scale or new cook books. If the government were to de-legalize imperial units and allow for the units to gradually take on rounded metric values colloquially, such as a pound of 500 g, then it would be easy for someone to use old cook books with a new scale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It will sort itself out in time” won&#8217;t happen if those laws now prohibiting metrication in some sectors are not changed to at least allow for metric units to be used.  If the law forbidding metric units to be used on some road signs is changed to the permissive use of any unit, then metric road signs will begin to appear naturally until they eventually are all metric.  This is what happened in Ireland until finally in 2005 Ireland made it official and completed what had not changed.  </p>
<p>If it would be legal to have a pub offer any size instead of being forced to use pints, you would see pint sizes disappear in favour of metric sizes.  It would be cheaper to purchase the same size glasses used elsewhere instead of having a special size not used outside the UK.  </p>
<p>As with the woman who spoke about her cookbooks, this can be easily solved by not having to get a new scale or new cook books. If the government were to de-legalize imperial units and allow for the units to gradually take on rounded metric values colloquially, such as a pound of 500 g, then it would be easy for someone to use old cook books with a new scale.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/02/minister-agrees-it-is-time-to-clear-up-%e2%80%9cvery-british-mess%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-20189</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=896#comment-20189</guid>
		<description>People in the UK speak 2 different languages when it comes to weight; I honestly have no idea how much I weigh in stones and have no intention of wasting my time by going backwards and learning obsolete weights. Some friends are the same, mainly if they are either regular gym-goers or moved here from overseas. But then I have other friends, of my own age, who don&#039;t understand people&#039;s weights in kg, even though they use kg in almost any other situation. We must be the only country on earth where people who grew up in the same place at the same time can&#039;t discuss our weights in the pub without resorting to a calculator! It is absurd that the likes of weight watchers deal only in stones, perpetuating this mess, when many of us have used kilograms for decades, and this issue needs a push, it won&#039;t be solved by inaction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People in the UK speak 2 different languages when it comes to weight; I honestly have no idea how much I weigh in stones and have no intention of wasting my time by going backwards and learning obsolete weights. Some friends are the same, mainly if they are either regular gym-goers or moved here from overseas. But then I have other friends, of my own age, who don&#8217;t understand people&#8217;s weights in kg, even though they use kg in almost any other situation. We must be the only country on earth where people who grew up in the same place at the same time can&#8217;t discuss our weights in the pub without resorting to a calculator! It is absurd that the likes of weight watchers deal only in stones, perpetuating this mess, when many of us have used kilograms for decades, and this issue needs a push, it won&#8217;t be solved by inaction.</p>
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		<title>By: Ezra Steinberg</title>
		<link>http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/02/minister-agrees-it-is-time-to-clear-up-%e2%80%9cvery-british-mess%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-20187</link>
		<dc:creator>Ezra Steinberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricviews.org.uk/?p=896#comment-20187</guid>
		<description>I just finished watching the video recording of the oral questions for February 25th and found it quite enlightening. (It reminds me of the US Senate, but the House of Lords seems much more refined.  ;-)

The other bit that the Minister was questioned on was that of the malnutrition in hospitals and the importance of weighing scales there for that purpose. While metric-only scales were not mentioned explicitly, it seems that a coherent policy (if that is not too much to ask!) would require metric-only weighing scales as well.

As for the Noble Lady who brought up the issue of cookery books written using Imperial weights and volumes only, I would differ with the Minister (who suggested that the Noble Lady request a dual scale for her next birthday) and propose a &quot;grass roots&quot; effort to encourage publishing houses to republish their cookery books using SI only.   ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just finished watching the video recording of the oral questions for February 25th and found it quite enlightening. (It reminds me of the US Senate, but the House of Lords seems much more refined.  <img src='http://metricviews.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The other bit that the Minister was questioned on was that of the malnutrition in hospitals and the importance of weighing scales there for that purpose. While metric-only scales were not mentioned explicitly, it seems that a coherent policy (if that is not too much to ask!) would require metric-only weighing scales as well.</p>
<p>As for the Noble Lady who brought up the issue of cookery books written using Imperial weights and volumes only, I would differ with the Minister (who suggested that the Noble Lady request a dual scale for her next birthday) and propose a &#8220;grass roots&#8221; effort to encourage publishing houses to republish their cookery books using SI only.   <img src='http://metricviews.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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